User talk:Manawolf/sandbox
Renaming Might as well use this talk about pagenames and what we think of it. Note that I'd like to avoid overcapitalizing words, so lowercase words in case of stuff like zoomer or whatever is more appropriate. ;Hellcat Zoomer I think Krimzon Guard zoomer is alright, it gets the meaning across. Though I believe there is a decent basis for krimzon zoomer as well, since it's shorter and seems less faction name + vehicle type. --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 19:45, March 16, 2012 (UTC) Krimzon zoomer sounds spiffy to me. Manawolf 20:48, March 16, 2012 (UTC) Moved ;Hellcat Cruiser I think HellCat cruiser will fly. --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 19:45, March 16, 2012 (UTC) Cool! Manawolf 20:48, March 16, 2012 (UTC) Moved the elite version as well. --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 00:10, March 18, 2012 (UTC) Not going to move ;Company Van The company van has an actual source; the official Daxter website (It's where we got the Daxter metal bug/vehicle names from plus some images). --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 19:45, March 16, 2012 (UTC) I realize that's the name by which it's referred to, it just seems so generic. Not a big deal, I just thought specifying which company would be an improvement. Manawolf 20:48, March 16, 2012 (UTC) That shouldn't be a problem on the page itself and in the very few small cases where you got to mention it on another page it should usually be obvious it's owned by the KREC, kinda like "At this point Ximon shoots to the rescue using the company van". --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 20:59, March 16, 2012 (UTC) That's mostly because we already know Ximon is a KREC employee, what other van would he use? Put it this way, if you searched the Internet for "company van" you would get tons of them. I'd recommend being specific for completion's sake, but you're the admin and the call is yours to make :) Manawolf 19:17, March 17, 2012 (UTC) If you searched on the wiki you'd find it. I can ensure you there's barely any people that will know the ename of the vehicle and google company van expecting to find us. Usually if you add jak and daxter wiki to it you'll get the correct link though. ;Naughty Dog We actually never made a ND company article because, well, I suppose we should but I always assumed we would just copy the Wikipedia article and bring nothing to the table of our own quality. --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 19:45, March 16, 2012 (UTC) Yeah, it just seems awkward to have both the company and the car on the same page. I don't see the point in making any detailed article about NDI, since as you said there's not much we can add that isn't on Wikipedia. But a short summary and list of links would be perfectly sufficient, and get it off the vehicle page. Manawolf 20:48, March 16, 2012 (UTC) Ah, but there's no ND company content on the car page at all though? --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 20:59, March 16, 2012 (UTC) Well, I meant the tiny sentence at the bottom under "Note." I guess that's more of a reference to say it was named after the company than a topic division. Manawolf 19:17, March 17, 2012 (UTC) Pages Here's a list of some non-sourced pagenames; (Note, I am assuming that in-game rules over all other possible sources and any other sources (something a dev said/wrote, website content, guide content, etc.) are debatable. *Hover Bot spawn pod (Probably delete this one and merge it into the hover bot page) *Levitator (The machine in Rock Village, Keira calls it a levitation machine so we just used this word) *Sentry (The white eyes at monk temple that only allow you through if you're invisible) *Defence Missile (A big missile from TLF, I'm not sure why this one gets it own page) *Guard Rifle/Taser/Grenade Launcher (The three weapons used by the KG) *Guard (The page for the KG/FL soldiers we all hate and love) *Gun Pod (For the turrets at drill platform) *Booster car (the unique car at the war factory) *Catacombs car (car you use for the catacombs) Thats about it as far as I remember, for now. --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 10:55, March 14, 2012 (UTC) I'd assume the same. I think listing any alternate names used in the guide, by developers, or obvious names commonly used by players as additional (but unofficial) terms might cut down on people trying to make crap pages, and provide a more comprehensive guide. The potential danger is getting ridiculously long lists if someone decides to be creative and invent names just to put them on the wiki, but I've noticed you're good at eliminating that kind of nonsense whenever it comes through. I'll look into these in more depth as I re-(re-re-re-re-re-)play through, and I don't believe there are in-game names for any of these items, but here's my initial thoughts: *Levitator: Since Keira called it a levitation machine, personally I'd go with that rather than modifying it to Levitator. *Sentry: Alternates: White Eye or Guardian Eye? *Defence Missile: Defense is mis-spelled, so it should at least be corrected to Defense Missile. I think it makes some sense to have a page for the things, since they play such a prominent role in that stage of TLF. Then again, they could also be a sub-section under Daxterjacking - as a matter of fact, they already are (Modes/Missile). But if it stays put, the Attacks section seriously needs re-writing liek woah. (Which I'll volunteer to do, if the page isn't going to be deleted.) *Guard Rifle, Guard Taser and Guard Grenade Launcher: It seems to me we have two choices - to tack "Guard" on to the weapon names (as they are now), or go simple and simply have descriptive names (Rifle, Taser and Grenade Launcher/Eco Grenade Launcher). Since it doesn't make very much sense to call one item a "Guard Rifle" and the other just "Taser" (for instance). Personally I like Eco Grenade Launcher better than Guard Grenade Launcher, but I can't say there's any logic behind it. *Hover Bot Spawn Pod: The name makes reasonable sense to me. While it's a distinct object that has a role in gameplay, there's not much that can be said about it. It could easily be merged into a sub-section under Hover Bots. *Guard: From what I recall (and I wasn't paying THAT close attention the last time I played J3), the League soldiers are never referred to as guards, so grouping them both under that name isn't precisely wrong but it's not precisely accurate either. This page seems to be an overall view of Haven's military/police force. At the same time, most of the information seems KG-specific, so really, most of it could just go on the Krimzon Guard page. (I'm also not sure why it's categorized under Creatures, unless I completely misunderstand the purpose of that category?) If this page should be kept, there are a few less generalized titles that could be used: **Haven City militia **Haven City military **Haven City armed forces *Gun Pod: I would just call this the Drill Platform Turret, or Drill Platform Gun Turret (if you want to be REALLY descriptive it could be the Drill Platform Mobile Gun Turret). *Booster car: The name isn't great, but it makes sense. I don't have any ideas for alternates at the moment. *Catacombs car: Aren't the passages called the Precursor Sub-Rails, or something like that? I'm not sure. I'll check when I play through next time. Anyway, if that turns out to be the case, I'd call it the Sub-Rails Car or Sub-Rails Hover Car. #Agreed #It's just a preference of what you want to call it in this case, since we use sentry, might as well stick with it. #Same as above #We tend to use American English (though in article it's up to preference), because ND is from the US #Ah but we don't know whether any of the weapons are Eco weapons (a common misconception). Frankly maybe we should just delete these articles since they don't add anything and merge them into the Guard page? Otherwise, we used the Guard prefix because it was a Guard weapon. Up for debate. #Agreed on merge #There's not a lot of difference between the KG and FL units, so I just grouped them under one page. Should we split it and make a separate page for both of them? And what do we call the new page? Soldier? Also the page is intended for just the sole unit you see in-game, if it uses a certain weapon or vehicle or whatever we mention that. The KG (faction page) already has a military section. You're probably right in that the page needs its content cut though, I haven't checked in a while. Also the creatures category is there because the guard unit is a person and therefore a creature (we don't have separate sub-categories for humanoid, so yeah. Maybe we should though). #Drill Platform turret seems fine by me. #Aye. #They're called both catacombs and sub-rails, we just use catacombs more. There. --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 00:44, March 17, 2012 (UTC) *Defense/Defence: You're right! My spellcheck picked out defence as incorrect but apparently it's a regional thing. UK/US spelling trips me up sometimes (I'm not in the UK, but a lot of books I read are from English authors). *Weapons: I quite like the idea of simply listing the weapons they use on the Guard/KG (and/or FL) page. Since there is no canon defined name for these babies and there's little to be said about them, I don't suppose there's any reason to split them into individual pages instead of having a "weapons" section under Guard/etc. *KG/FL: There's not a huge functional difference, but looking at them from an in-universe perspective, they're two very different organizations. The KG is a militant police force used by a functional dictator to both suppress dissent and defend the city. The FL is an adaptation of that force after the city's ruling power and command structure changed; they also appear to do far less harassment of citizens, don't patrol the streets in HellCats and don't utilize the old Krimzon zoomers. So they're related, and probably even keep most of the same people through the transition, but their command structure, function, attitude and public relations are very different. (And I can't recall if FLs will cold-cock you if you jump on their head. The KG sure do.) **Creature: I'd think that "creature" would refer to non-humanoid races. Lurkers should probably be categorized as creatures because of their sub-human status, but I'd exclude humans. Although one can refer to a person as a creature, it has a broad, animalistic implication. A user browsing a wiki probably wouldn't expect to find human military factions listed under Creatures. *Catacombs/Sub-Rails: I'd have thought that Catacombs referred to all of the ancient underground passageways, while Sub-Rails referred to the pathways the car travels? That's just what it seems like to me from the words themselves. Catacombs can mean all sorts of underground passageways, while Rails indicates vehicle passage. It's hardly a huge deal of course, just my linguistic instincts talking, and may not reflect the way NDI meant to use the words. If Catacombs and Sub-Rails are literally synonyms it makes sense to standardize using one over the other. Hey, we worked this down to a shorter list, awesome. Manawolf 18:48, March 17, 2012 (UTC) Whoops! I have a note on Levitator/Levitation Machine. This morning I caught Keira's idle lines in Rock Village about getting "that Levitator working." So there is canon support for Levitator. IIRC we're giving preference to any information in the script over other gameplay though, so it should probably be the Levitation Machine with an a.k.a. of the Levitator. Manawolf 18:52, March 17, 2012 (UTC) #Yeah let's stick with levitation machine since it's in the actual cutscene and thus script, instead of an line from idling. Both words can be used though if you need to mention it somewhere. #I'll make a forum post later about merging some of the weapon pages, there's some more than this I want to get rid off. #Alright, so assuming we split the two, what do we call either of them? Guard and Soldier? #We just list non-unique units (such as the guards, wastelanders, marauders) under creatures, but I agree that humanoids will do better (and then make that a sub-section of creatures). #Interesting thing, I personally suggest taking another look at the game and see if they explicitly refer to something. So let's put this one on hold for now. Could you add the ones we agreed on to the table? And remove the ones we decided would stay put. Then I can move the pages and stuff later. --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 19:03, March 17, 2012 (UTC) *Guard: I would just have a Krimzon Guard page, and list all the stuff about guard behavior etc. on that page. Then a Freedom League page, with information about the soldiers - if there's anything that is the same from JII, it can say "see Krimzon Guard" for that info. I'd call KG sprites guards, and FL sprites soldiers (per the shift from merged domestic law enforcement and defense, to primarily city defense). The thing is, we can have a merged page referring to both guards and soldiers, but there are enough differences so I'm not sure what the advantage is to having a single page. To be accurate the Guard/Soldier page would need to list them under different sections, and we might as well just have the Krimzon Guard and Freedom League pages do that job. *Making humanoids a sub-section of creatures works perfectly! Shall do, right now! Manawolf 19:41, March 17, 2012 (UTC) Sources Might as well add this topic to the table. Lemme go and get a list of possible sources. *Anything IN the games **Script from cutscenes **Non-cutscenes script from comments made by Daxter or from the communicator **Game world content (such as in-game text like the precursor language) **Game information from the menu or pop-up text (intended for the player) *The game's case (including the front cover, back cover and anything on the inside of the cover) *The game's manual *Information from developers **Anything they say in an interview **Anything they wrote on their website/portfolio that is related to J&D **Text on concept artwork *Anything from a game's website (note most J&D websites have been taken down at this point, these websites are also subject to lots of conflicting info possibly due to bad translations or wrong information?) *Anything from an official published guide (we tend to use Piggyback / Authorized Collection). If anything conflicts with something else I'd like to note both names in the respective article, if there is conflicting information I'd say the higher one has priority. --[[User:Tim H|'Tim H']] - Talk 18:26, March 14, 2012 (UTC) Fantastic. No argument from this quarter. Manawolf 23:49, March 16, 2012 (UTC)